Bug HLG

Sounds brill! Can't wait to get building! Let me know if you would like a 3D version doing and I can get it done over weekend. The standard Bug in 3D is almost done =] Roger --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "Squid" <littlefr2003@...> wrote: > > Hi ya Chris, > > yes sorry all for the delay on the bug plans. I have been sick 4 days in total now. Some asian flu, not much chop! > > The plan is essntually finished with the only few things to do is laying out everything nicely, and working the CG out. > > But please it will be greatly appreciated if everyone looks over the plan first throughly and if they find anything odd or confusing they let me no. I would like to build it first and test it but i think ill let all you keen guys give it a go first! > > Kind Regards > Alan > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "raincityflyer" <lewis08@> wrote: > > > > Alan - How goes it? I'm excited to get started. > > > > Chris in Seattle >

Hi ya Chris, yes sorry all for the delay on the bug plans. I have been sick 4 days in total now. Some asian flu, not much chop! The plan is essntually finished with the only few things to do is laying out everything nicely, and working the CG out. But please it will be greatly appreciated if everyone looks over the plan first throughly and if they find anything odd or confusing they let me no. I would like to build it first and test it but i think ill let all you keen guys give it a go first! Kind Regards Alan --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "raincityflyer" <lewis08@...> wrote: > > Alan - How goes it? I'm excited to get started. > > Chris in Seattle

Alan - How goes it? I'm excited to get started. Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "Squid" <littlefr2003@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the thoughts. What ill do is include a few options of the airfoil. > Kind Regards > Alan Hughes in New Zealand >

Perhaps the "Creative Commons" thing would cover it not being used commercially etc..??...I think that is the term..?? Laurie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ref "Stringing the LE"....sorry I now understand it as stringers on forward portion of the LE usually in front of a spar....I was thinking of a piece of string being used for the LE itself...(??)....my mistake... Laurie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan, I will try to find my original plans or find a picture of the turbulators. The Easy Breezy had 2 or 3 rows of them on the upper leading edge between the leading edge and the high point of the wing. The ribs ar notched and the turbulators were inset flush with the top of the ribs. Paul From: Squid Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 1:06 AM To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Subject: [BugHLG] Stringing Leading Edge Airfoil Hi Laurie, I am currently trying to find some reference to what i mentioned earlier but have been unsuccessful so far. What i am going on is a conversation i had with a great chap 9 odd years ago! Although one of the guys on here talked about a glider from the 80 called Easy Breezy having this construction method that i am talking about. So that makes two people i no of that have used this. I think this might be a very interesting option to try a bit later on down the track. Can anyone give any feed back on the construction technique? Kind Regards Alan Hughes --- In mailto:BugHLG%40yahoogroups.com, "Laurie (WJ) Carroll" <lwjcarroll@...> wrote: Stringing the leading edge is interesting....any more info on that ??? Rgds Laurie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We better get Carl's name spelled right - Carl Dowdy.  By the way, Carl is a member of this group.  He doesn't get the emails but does drop in to the group website ocasionally.   John ________________________________ From: Squid <littlefr2003@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 12:59 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Original airfoil S3014 , name, string   Hi John, yes i am in 100% agreement with you. These mods and development changes have all come from the bug group. Thus this plan is and should be free to the bug group. No worries at all with the redraw. Im glad to put back into the hobby i love. Hopefully one day some will read a bout me as i have about Dave Robelen, Leroy Cox and the list could go on for days. But most the most important thing thing to remember is that all the mods came from you guys out there. Working as a team is far more effective in the progression of a subject than working alone. Kind Regards Alan How do you think it should read? LiteninBug Design: Bug HLG group collaboration Based on: The bug by Carl Dowedy Drawn By: Alan Hughes [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you look at post #481 in the RCG "Bringing Back the Bug" thread, you'll find a picture of a Bug made with stringing (well, one stringer anyway). Looks pretty good and probably is a lighter weight alternative to half ribs. Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "Squid" <littlefr2003@...> wrote: > > One thought i had for keeping the airfoil in shape could be stringing the leading edge? I saw this method used by an old guy here in NZ and he said it was less weight than sheeting the leading edge and the strength from it was great. It also allowed him to space the ribs out more without the sag of the tissue in-between. > > Dave Robelen used an interesting method with a tubulator for his micro models to generate lift. While we wont be throwing a square length or balsa onto the top of the ribs i just brought this up to suggest that the tiny bumps produced by the stringing the leading edge might not be too harmful? Thoughts anyone. I wont include this at all in the plans it was just an interesting thought and i will make a wing up like that to test it out & let you all no how it goes... > > Kind Regards > Alan Hughes in New Zealand >

Hi Laurie, I am currently trying to find some reference to what i mentioned earlier but have been unsuccessful so far. What i am going on is a conversation i had with a great chap 9 odd years ago! Although one of the guys on here talked about a glider from the 80 called Easy Breezy having this construction method that i am talking about. So that makes two people i no of that have used this. I think this might be a very interesting option to try a bit later on down the track. Can anyone give any feed back on the construction technique? Kind Regards Alan Hughes --- In BugHLG@...m, "Laurie (WJ) Carroll" <lwjcarroll@...> wrote: Stringing the leading edge is interesting....any more info on that ??? Rgds Laurie

Hi John, yes i am in 100% agreement with you. These mods and development changes have all come from the bug group. Thus this plan is and should be free to the bug group. No worries at all with the redraw. Im glad to put back into the hobby i love. Hopefully one day some will read a bout me as i have about Dave Robelen, Leroy Cox and the list could go on for days. But most the most important thing thing to remember is that all the mods came from you guys out there. Working as a team is far more effective in the progression of a subject than working alone. Kind Regards Alan How do you think it should read? LiteninBug Design: Bug HLG group collaboration Based on: The bug by Carl Dowedy Drawn By: Alan Hughes

It might be time to talk about the ownership of this design.  The first post to this group was on April 3, 2002.  We are approaching the ten year anniversary of this group.  This has been a design-in-progress for as long as this group has been around.  I built my first Bug in 2003 and it had most of the features of the design we are talking about.  It has a 34.5" span, a cruciform tail, an extended nose, spar extended to the tip with launch peg, and all radio gear in the nose; and I was not the first one to build one like this.  I believe that the design should belong to the group.  That it should be not-for-profit and available to anyone in the group. Once a number of gliders or wings have been built and proven, we could approach a company like lazer-works and they could produce a short kit for the glider.  Alan probably knows a similar company that will do the same on his side of the world.  It's just a guess, but for about $25 we'd have a laser-cut lightweight-balsa short kit.   We thank you Alan for your drafting efforts to put this design down on paper.    John     ________________________________ From: Squid <littlefr2003@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:29 PM Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Original airfoil S3014 , name, string   Hahahah woops! Gee thats not good the plan designer is getting the name of the airfoil wrong! I do no what im doing.... most of the time. (my excuses is its Friday here and well, yes its friday hahaha) Thats 5 for LiteninBug. I like that fella too. Ill try and find some tonight but if not ill quickly try and draw it. Kind Regards Alan Hughes --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: Alan, Just trying to get rid of the confusion I started. The original Bug airfoil is a Selig 3014. I suggested the Bugger but I also like something like LiteninBug. Do you have any photos or articles showing the string method? John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stringing the leading edge is interesting....any more info on that ??? Rgds Laurie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hahahah woops! Gee thats not good the plan designer is getting the name of the airfoil wrong! I do no what im doing.... most of the time. (my excuses is its Friday here and well, yes its friday hahaha) Thats 5 for LiteninBug. I like that fella too. Ill try and find some tonight but if not ill quickly try and draw it. Kind Regards Alan Hughes --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: Alan, Just trying to get rid of the confusion I started. The original Bug airfoil is a Selig 3014. I suggested the Bugger but I also like something like LiteninBug. Do you have any photos or articles showing the string method? John

Alan, Just trying to get rid of the confusion I started.  The original Bug airfoil is a Selig 3014.   I suggested the Bugger but I also like something like LiteninBug.   Do you have any photos or articles showing the string method?   John ________________________________ From: Squid <littlefr2003@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:31 PM Subject: [BugHLG] Airfoil Options, Name & Stringing.   Thanks for the thoughts. What ill do is include a few options of the airfoil. Like John said, the original Selig 7014, AG37 & maybe the Drela foils. Optional half ribs will be a standard on all the wing plans. (Doesn't hurt to include them and it doesnt change spacing of the current ribs, they just fit in between) As for names, I had a few and mayfly was one that i was quite keen on too, but bugger buggered have quite a Kiwi (New Zealand) catch to them as it is a very common saying here. So keep em names coming! One thought i had for keeping the airfoil in shape could be stringing the leading edge? I saw this method used by an old guy here in NZ and he said it was less weight than sheeting the leading edge and the strength from it was great. It also allowed him to space the ribs out more without the sag of the tissue in-between. Dave Robelen used an interesting method with a tubulator for his micro models to generate lift. While we wont be throwing a square length or balsa onto the top of the ribs i just brought this up to suggest that the tiny bumps produced by the stringing the leading edge might not be too harmful? Thoughts anyone. I wont include this at all in the plans it was just an interesting thought and i will make a wing up like that to test it out & let you all no how it goes... Kind Regards Alan Hughes in New Zealand [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had an old 2 meter glider called the Easy Breezy back in the 80’s and it used 2 balsa strips between the leading edge and the main spar. There were used as both turbulators and for strength. The plane flew great and I could usually outfly Gentle Lady’s and Olympic II’s regularly. So I guess it was beneficial. Paul From: Squid Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:31 PM To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Subject: [BugHLG] Airfoil Options, Name & Stringing. Thanks for the thoughts. What ill do is include a few options of the airfoil. Like John said, the original Selig 7014, AG37 & maybe the Drela foils. Optional half ribs will be a standard on all the wing plans. (Doesn't hurt to include them and it doesnt change spacing of the current ribs, they just fit in between) As for names, I had a few and mayfly was one that i was quite keen on too, but bugger buggered have quite a Kiwi (New Zealand) catch to them as it is a very common saying here. So keep em names coming! One thought i had for keeping the airfoil in shape could be stringing the leading edge? I saw this method used by an old guy here in NZ and he said it was less weight than sheeting the leading edge and the strength from it was great. It also allowed him to space the ribs out more without the sag of the tissue in-between. Dave Robelen used an interesting method with a tubulator for his micro models to generate lift. While we wont be throwing a square length or balsa onto the top of the ribs i just brought this up to suggest that the tiny bumps produced by the stringing the leading edge might not be too harmful? Thoughts anyone. I wont include this at all in the plans it was just an interesting thought and i will make a wing up like that to test it out & let you all no how it goes... Kind Regards Alan Hughes in New Zealand [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the thoughts. What ill do is include a few options of the airfoil. Like John said, the original Selig 7014, AG37 & maybe the Drela foils. Optional half ribs will be a standard on all the wing plans. (Doesn't hurt to include them and it doesnt change spacing of the current ribs, they just fit in between) As for names, I had a few and mayfly was one that i was quite keen on too, but bugger buggered have quite a Kiwi (New Zealand) catch to them as it is a very common saying here. So keep em names coming! One thought i had for keeping the airfoil in shape could be stringing the leading edge? I saw this method used by an old guy here in NZ and he said it was less weight than sheeting the leading edge and the strength from it was great. It also allowed him to space the ribs out more without the sag of the tissue in-between. Dave Robelen used an interesting method with a tubulator for his micro models to generate lift. While we wont be throwing a square length or balsa onto the top of the ribs i just brought this up to suggest that the tiny bumps produced by the stringing the leading edge might not be too harmful? Thoughts anyone. I wont include this at all in the plans it was just an interesting thought and i will make a wing up like that to test it out & let you all no how it goes... Kind Regards Alan Hughes in New Zealand

I would like to add my vote for "Lightningbug". On Mar 1, 2012, at 6:07 PM, "KenSAM51" <kdholden@...> wrote: > Hi Buggers! > > Glad to see some life on this site! Some thoughts on airfoils follow. > > The new Selig and Drela airfoils require very high precision in construction to achieve the drag reductions predicted from those designs, on the order of +/- 0.008 inches. The profile drag of the wing is a small fraction of the induced drag, and the induced drag is necessarily the same for wings with the same lift distribution (~planform). A film covered wing is not a single airfoil and the area between ribs is much closer the the average than the airfoil of the ribs. That means that the ribs must be of an airfoil that promotes overall good performance, not just good performance at the rib. > > As for a name, how about Junebug, Gnat, Lightingbug, Ladybug or Mayfly? Not quite as good as Bug, but... We could go on forever, just keep it small and very light. > > Thermals, Ken in Carmichael > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Buggers! Glad to see some life on this site! Some thoughts on airfoils follow. The new Selig and Drela airfoils require very high precision in construction to achieve the drag reductions predicted from those designs, on the order of +/- 0.008 inches. The profile drag of the wing is a small fraction of the induced drag, and the induced drag is necessarily the same for wings with the same lift distribution (~planform). A film covered wing is not a single airfoil and the area between ribs is much closer the the average than the airfoil of the ribs. That means that the ribs must be of an airfoil that promotes overall good performance, not just good performance at the rib. As for a name, how about Junebug, Gnat, Lightingbug, Ladybug or Mayfly? Not quite as good as Bug, but... We could go on forever, just keep it small and very light. Thermals, Ken in Carmichael