Bug HLG

Fantastic.  My printer is dead so I'll head to the library to have them printed.  Plan to modify my Bug #2 to the new airfoil.    Thanks John ________________________________ From: Squid <littlefr2003@yahoo.com> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:56 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Lightninbug Parts On 8.5 x 11" US Letter   Sorry about the delay there John. I have uploaded it. I Hope this helps all. Kind Regards Alan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry about the delay there John. I have uploaded it. I Hope this helps all. Kind Regards Alan

Alan, Did you ever get around to making the AG37 Ribs available on a letter size pdf for easy printing? John

Hi Guys, I'm confused by the recommendations for SkyShark P90 and P100. Here are some weight comparisons of P90/P100 to standard recommended 1/8" pultruded CF tube. All the same lengths and all sold by Goodwinds: SkyShark II P90: length 32.5, OD 0.275", weight 10.5g SkyShark II P100: length 32.5, OD 0.280", weight 13g Pultruded Light wall: length 32.5, OD 0.125", weight 6.3g Pultruded Strong wall: length 32.5, OD 0.125", weight 7.2g I actually ordered a few of the P90 and P100's, they arrived today and look amazing but will I be able to use them in a Bug? They almost double the weight of the recommended boom and spars. Will today's lighter electronics make up for this or is this going to smash my Bug to splinters on maiden launch? I haven't started building yet so I could always save these for future projects and stick to recommended sizes and just go pultruded 1/8". Are you guys actually using P90 and P100's in Bugs or other larger kits? Thanks, Max --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Schuh <tim@...> wrote: > > On 3/21/2012 2:31 PM, raincityflyer wrote: > > > > Make sure you are watching your weights with "retail" CF parts. The OD's may match, but the wall thickness is what kills you. > > > > The final version of the Little Nipper (Swyft 2) uses a wrapped spar and is really stiff. I opted to go this route to fight the flex you get in a pultruded spar. This flex takes a lot of height out of your launch as the wings oscillate up and down after release. The arc can be pretty dramatic. > > > > Same goes for the boom. The whipping oscillation deprives you of launch height as the tail wags back and forth. > > > > Carl designed this plane for a javelin launch with no torsion to the boom. Wing flex was also just a given in those early days. > > > > The LB will work with any combination of CF parts, just watch your weight. As they say - "Ounces are made up of grams." > > > > Stay light! > > > > Chris in Seattle > > > > I can vouch for the P100 fitting into the new AG37 wing, so don't be afraid to try it. > > > I agree with Chris. I've used P90 and P100 tubes on my 1.2m and 1.5m > woodie DLG experiments without any issues at all. In fact I used a P100 > on a 2M woodie floater pod and boom with good results. There's plenty > of stiffness and much lightness. For a quick, very informal comparison > here's what I have on hand and within reach. I got all the CF tubes on > sale and I don't think I paid more than a few dollars for any of them. > I know I got a mess of them for less than $20 shipped to my door in Texas. > > All tubes are 36" long. > > Generic fiberglass pushrod tube (I think from a Dave Brown pushrod kit) > OD: 0.300 > ID: 0.241 > W: 22g > > SkyShark II (no other markings and I don't remember) CF tube: > OD: 0.387 > ID 0.345 > W: 17g > > P90 tube: > OD 0.280 > ID .0240 > W:11g > > P100 tube: > OD: 0.285 > ID: 0.240 > W: 13g >

You can always ask at tackle shops if they have any busted graphite rods you can have. I worked at a shop, so scored heaps, but you should be able to get some this way. Some manufacturers want the rods back, others are happy to just get told and let you take the broken one [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a problem with using fishing rods. It seems that I would, instead of chopping it up and making a couple model planes out of it, I'd rig up and go fishing with it. I just can't bear to cut one up. One of these days I'll sneak up on one with a saw and...... On Mar 23, 2012, at 2:46 PM, "Squid" <littlefr2003@...> wrote: > I too have found that using a fishing rod is a really great cheap alternative to other carbon rods for booms. Personally I buy the cheap telescopic rods, these are great as the eyelets are only every poorly epoxied on and most of the time they can just be pulled off by hand. Most of the rods have a screw cap at the bottom so the sections of rod can slide straight out. How is everyones building going? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I too have found that using a fishing rod is a really great cheap alternative to other carbon rods for booms. Personally I buy the cheap telescopic rods, these are great as the eyelets are only every poorly epoxied on and most of the time they can just be pulled off by hand. Most of the rods have a screw cap at the bottom so the sections of rod can slide straight out. How is everyones building going?

Not sure how you got the guides off your rod Rick, but the best way is to heat up the epoxy around the guide foot, and cut through the thread where the metal part of the guide foot is. That way you won't damage the blank, and when heated up the epoxy goes really soft. Spent many an hour stripping down fishing rods. My other time waster-yep, fishing and all that goes along with it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Rick, > You also used the rod for the spars.  Did you buy more than one fishing rod to get both wing spars the same? >   > Did you actually test the height of your launches (with the ram) before and after you moved the peg.  I thought you got the launch height because of the no-slop pushrod setup. >   > John The spars are carbon rod that I salvaged from a kite that someone threw away- I think they are 2.5 or 3mm. I just used them because I had them on hand. I never did test the launch heights with the normal wing which was SAL. The second wing was the extended version with the peg in the rear position from the start. It was launching higher than I was ever able to throw my Gambler, so I put the RAM in it to see what was up. It's not scientific at all because there are so many variables, so I can't say for sure that the boom made the difference, or the peg position, or the pushrods. But it does all work together well. The use of the fishing rod boom wasn't an inspired notion at all. The cheapest pultruded carbon tube of the correct size that I could find was going to cost me $20.00 with shipping factored in, and that annoyed me a lot. Then I thought about cheap Chinese made carbon fishing rods that I had seen at Walmart and took a look. That's how that came about. It just happens to work well, and the tapered boom looks cool to boot. I'm convinced that all of the wrapped and tapered tubes we see today are coming from China anyway, so why not take advantage of Walmart's huge economic clout and get it cheaply there? Works for me, and it's always available. Rick

Rick, You also used the rod for the spars.  Did you buy more than one fishing rod to get both wing spars the same?   Did you actually test the height of your launches (with the ram) before and after you moved the peg.  I thought you got the launch height because of the no-slop pushrod setup.   John ________________________________ From: kb11troy <kb10troy@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:54 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon Booms - Goodwinds   Yes- the rod is tapered. It was just a typical two piece rod, and I cut the boom from near the tip end. It was a matter of deciding what I wanted the maximum diameter to be (for fitting into the fuse), cutting the rod at that point, and then deciding on the length and cutting it there. Then remove the line guides and scrape off the shiny finish. I've added a couple of photos to the "Rick's Bug" folder. One shows the raw boom- it's hard to tell in the photo, but it is tapered. The other shows what you're looking for if you go to the store. Mine came from Walmart. There is also a nice photo in my folder that shows how the boom looks after you process it. If anyone decides to try this, ask me about the trick for cleanly removing the line guides- they're exopied on pretty darn tight. One other cool thing about this approach is that you will be left with the large end of the rod, which will make a nice boom for a two meter glider. Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@...> wrote: > > Such a great idea. Was the fishing rod tapered? > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm getting consistent 90'- 100' launches (measured by a RAM3) on my Bug with the fishing rod boom. Must be working well :) > > > > Rick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

FWIW- the boom is good, but the nice launches really started when I began using the rearward mounted launch peg. The mounting looks suspicious, but it has held together no problem through a lot of hard launches. At least I think I'm launching hard- my fingertips get a little sore and tender after a session of throwing the Bug. ;) Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Schuh <tim@...> wrote: > > On 3/21/2012 7:17 PM, kb11troy wrote: > > > > I'm getting consistent 90'- 100' launches (measured by a RAM3) on my Bug with the fishing rod boom. Must be working well :) > > > > Rick > > > > Obviously you can't argue with what works! :) > > TS >

Yes- the rod is tapered. It was just a typical two piece rod, and I cut the boom from near the tip end. It was a matter of deciding what I wanted the maximum diameter to be (for fitting into the fuse), cutting the rod at that point, and then deciding on the length and cutting it there. Then remove the line guides and scrape off the shiny finish. I've added a couple of photos to the "Rick's Bug" folder. One shows the raw boom- it's hard to tell in the photo, but it is tapered. The other shows what you're looking for if you go to the store. Mine came from Walmart. There is also a nice photo in my folder that shows how the boom looks after you process it. If anyone decides to try this, ask me about the trick for cleanly removing the line guides- they're exopied on pretty darn tight. One other cool thing about this approach is that you will be left with the large end of the rod, which will make a nice boom for a two meter glider. Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@...> wrote: > > Such a great idea. Was the fishing rod tapered? > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm getting consistent 90'- 100' launches (measured by a RAM3) on my Bug with the fishing rod boom. Must be working well :) > > > > Rick > >

On 3/21/2012 7:17 PM, kb11troy wrote: > > I'm getting consistent 90'- 100' launches (measured by a RAM3) on my Bug with the fishing rod boom. Must be working well :) > > Rick > Obviously you can't argue with what works! :) TS

Such a great idea. Was the fishing rod tapered? --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@...> wrote: > > > > I'm getting consistent 90'- 100' launches (measured by a RAM3) on my Bug with the fishing rod boom. Must be working well :) > > Rick > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Schuh <tim@> wrote: > > > > On 3/21/2012 2:31 PM, raincityflyer wrote: > > > > > > Make sure you are watching your weights with "retail" CF parts. The OD's may match, but the wall thickness is what kills you. > > > > > > The final version of the Little Nipper (Swyft 2) uses a wrapped spar and is really stiff. I opted to go this route to fight the flex you get in a pultruded spar. This flex takes a lot of height out of your launch as the wings oscillate up and down after release. The arc can be pretty dramatic. > > > > > > Same goes for the boom. The whipping oscillation deprives you of launch height as the tail wags back and forth. > > > > > > Carl designed this plane for a javelin launch with no torsion to the boom. Wing flex was also just a given in those early days. > > > > > > The LB will work with any combination of CF parts, just watch your weight. As they say - "Ounces are made up of grams." > > > > > > Stay light! > > > > > > Chris in Seattle > > > > > > I can vouch for the P100 fitting into the new AG37 wing, so don't be afraid to try it. > > > > > > I agree with Chris. I've used P90 and P100 tubes on my 1.2m and 1.5m > > woodie DLG experiments without any issues at all. In fact I used a P100 > > on a 2M woodie floater pod and boom with good results. There's plenty > > of stiffness and much lightness. For a quick, very informal comparison > > here's what I have on hand and within reach. I got all the CF tubes on > > sale and I don't think I paid more than a few dollars for any of them. > > I know I got a mess of them for less than $20 shipped to my door in Texas. > > > > All tubes are 36" long. > > > > Generic fiberglass pushrod tube (I think from a Dave Brown pushrod kit) > > OD: 0.300 > > ID: 0.241 > > W: 22g > > > > SkyShark II (no other markings and I don't remember) CF tube: > > OD: 0.387 > > ID 0.345 > > W: 17g > > > > P90 tube: > > OD 0.280 > > ID .0240 > > W:11g > > > > P100 tube: > > OD: 0.285 > > ID: 0.240 > > W: 13g > > >

I'm getting consistent 90'- 100' launches (measured by a RAM3) on my Bug with the fishing rod boom. Must be working well :) Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Schuh <tim@...> wrote: > > On 3/21/2012 2:31 PM, raincityflyer wrote: > > > > Make sure you are watching your weights with "retail" CF parts. The OD's may match, but the wall thickness is what kills you. > > > > The final version of the Little Nipper (Swyft 2) uses a wrapped spar and is really stiff. I opted to go this route to fight the flex you get in a pultruded spar. This flex takes a lot of height out of your launch as the wings oscillate up and down after release. The arc can be pretty dramatic. > > > > Same goes for the boom. The whipping oscillation deprives you of launch height as the tail wags back and forth. > > > > Carl designed this plane for a javelin launch with no torsion to the boom. Wing flex was also just a given in those early days. > > > > The LB will work with any combination of CF parts, just watch your weight. As they say - "Ounces are made up of grams." > > > > Stay light! > > > > Chris in Seattle > > > > I can vouch for the P100 fitting into the new AG37 wing, so don't be afraid to try it. > > > I agree with Chris. I've used P90 and P100 tubes on my 1.2m and 1.5m > woodie DLG experiments without any issues at all. In fact I used a P100 > on a 2M woodie floater pod and boom with good results. There's plenty > of stiffness and much lightness. For a quick, very informal comparison > here's what I have on hand and within reach. I got all the CF tubes on > sale and I don't think I paid more than a few dollars for any of them. > I know I got a mess of them for less than $20 shipped to my door in Texas. > > All tubes are 36" long. > > Generic fiberglass pushrod tube (I think from a Dave Brown pushrod kit) > OD: 0.300 > ID: 0.241 > W: 22g > > SkyShark II (no other markings and I don't remember) CF tube: > OD: 0.387 > ID 0.345 > W: 17g > > P90 tube: > OD 0.280 > ID .0240 > W:11g > > P100 tube: > OD: 0.285 > ID: 0.240 > W: 13g >

I've purchased from Goodwinds for years. They used to be in the basement of Gasworks kite shop in Seattle. The former owner sold to her son and he moved out to the sticks to save rent and does mail order only. :( There are several other vendors like kitebuilder.com, funwithwind.com, etc. Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "raincityflyer" <lewis08@...> wrote: > > > > Make sure you are watching your weights with "retail" CF parts. The OD's may match, but the wall thickness is what kills you. > > The final version of the Little Nipper (Swyft 2) uses a wrapped spar and is really stiff. I opted to go this route to fight the flex you get in a pultruded spar. This flex takes a lot of height out of your launch as the wings oscillate up and down after release. The arc can be pretty dramatic. > > Same goes for the boom. The whipping oscillation deprives you of launch height as the tail wags back and forth. > > Carl designed this plane for a javelin launch with no torsion to the boom. Wing flex was also just a given in those early days. > > The LB will work with any combination of CF parts, just watch your weight. As they say - "Ounces are made up of grams." > > Stay light! > > Chris in Seattle > > I can vouch for the P100 fitting into the new AG37 wing, so don't be afraid to try it. > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > A quick search produced Goodwinds and a good price on the P100.  I'd use one for the boom.  1/8" pultruded spars have worked fine for me.  Rick found cf tubes in either Walmarts of  Kmarts that look good. > >   > > John > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: raincityflyer <lewis08@> > > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:41 AM > > Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon Booms > > > > > >   > > Max - I personally stay away from pultuded tubes. I prefer wrapped tubes around 1/4" or 5-6 mm. There are plenty of kite stores online that sell them for $10-12. A Skyshark P100 will just fit in the AG 37 tip rib. > > > > Cheers! > > Chris in Seattle > > > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@> wrote: > > > > > > This is my second post and I apologize up front if this has been covered before. I did a quick search that returned nothing specific, just various mentions. > > > > > > What kind of CF Tube are you guys building with for wing spars and booms: Wrapped, Pultruded, Uni-Direction, Braided, etc... ? > > > > > > And where are you sourcing these types? > > > > > > Thanks for any information. I look forward to building the original first, then the new design when the group irons out any wrinkles. > > > > > > Max > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

On 3/21/2012 2:31 PM, raincityflyer wrote: > > Make sure you are watching your weights with "retail" CF parts. The OD's may match, but the wall thickness is what kills you. > > The final version of the Little Nipper (Swyft 2) uses a wrapped spar and is really stiff. I opted to go this route to fight the flex you get in a pultruded spar. This flex takes a lot of height out of your launch as the wings oscillate up and down after release. The arc can be pretty dramatic. > > Same goes for the boom. The whipping oscillation deprives you of launch height as the tail wags back and forth. > > Carl designed this plane for a javelin launch with no torsion to the boom. Wing flex was also just a given in those early days. > > The LB will work with any combination of CF parts, just watch your weight. As they say - "Ounces are made up of grams." > > Stay light! > > Chris in Seattle > > I can vouch for the P100 fitting into the new AG37 wing, so don't be afraid to try it. I agree with Chris. I've used P90 and P100 tubes on my 1.2m and 1.5m woodie DLG experiments without any issues at all. In fact I used a P100 on a 2M woodie floater pod and boom with good results. There's plenty of stiffness and much lightness. For a quick, very informal comparison here's what I have on hand and within reach. I got all the CF tubes on sale and I don't think I paid more than a few dollars for any of them. I know I got a mess of them for less than $20 shipped to my door in Texas. All tubes are 36" long. Generic fiberglass pushrod tube (I think from a Dave Brown pushrod kit) OD: 0.300 ID: 0.241 W: 22g SkyShark II (no other markings and I don't remember) CF tube: OD: 0.387 ID 0.345 W: 17g P90 tube: OD 0.280 ID .0240 W:11g P100 tube: OD: 0.285 ID: 0.240 W: 13g

Make sure you are watching your weights with "retail" CF parts. The OD's may match, but the wall thickness is what kills you. The final version of the Little Nipper (Swyft 2) uses a wrapped spar and is really stiff. I opted to go this route to fight the flex you get in a pultruded spar. This flex takes a lot of height out of your launch as the wings oscillate up and down after release. The arc can be pretty dramatic. Same goes for the boom. The whipping oscillation deprives you of launch height as the tail wags back and forth. Carl designed this plane for a javelin launch with no torsion to the boom. Wing flex was also just a given in those early days. The LB will work with any combination of CF parts, just watch your weight. As they say - "Ounces are made up of grams." Stay light! Chris in Seattle I can vouch for the P100 fitting into the new AG37 wing, so don't be afraid to try it. --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > A quick search produced Goodwinds and a good price on the P100.  I'd use one for the boom.  1/8" pultruded spars have worked fine for me.  Rick found cf tubes in either Walmarts of  Kmarts that look good. >   > John > > > ________________________________ > From: raincityflyer <lewis08@...> > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:41 AM > Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon Booms > > >   > Max - I personally stay away from pultuded tubes. I prefer wrapped tubes around 1/4" or 5-6 mm. There are plenty of kite stores online that sell them for $10-12. A Skyshark P100 will just fit in the AG 37 tip rib. > > Cheers! > Chris in Seattle > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@> wrote: > > > > This is my second post and I apologize up front if this has been covered before. I did a quick search that returned nothing specific, just various mentions. > > > > What kind of CF Tube are you guys building with for wing spars and booms: Wrapped, Pultruded, Uni-Direction, Braided, etc... ? > > > > And where are you sourcing these types? > > > > Thanks for any information. I look forward to building the original first, then the new design when the group irons out any wrinkles. > > > > Max > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

After researching available carbon tubing, and the shipping costs, I concluded that I could spend about $15.00 on a cheap carbon fishing rod from Walmart and cut a very nice wrapped and tapered boom out of it for less than I could order pultruded or wrapped from anywhere else. The fishing rod boom turned out very nice- quite stiff and about 4 grams. I've been flying it on my Bug for about a year and it works great. There photos in the "Rick's Bug" folder here, and I also detailed the process a bit in the RCG "Bringing Back the Bug" thread. Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@...> wrote: > > .125" boom & spar for the Lightninbug and .1875" boom with .125" spar for Bug'X' - how important is it to keep to those diameters? I'm finding it a challenge to find anything other than pultruded at those diameters. > > John, the SkyShark P100 has a larger .280" OD. How does this effect weight/performance? I would love to use 1/4" boom for stiffness. I checked out an 1/8 pultruded tube @ the local hobby shop and thought it would be way to bendy/flimsy for fuse use. > >

.125" boom & spar for the Lightninbug and .1875" boom with .125" spar for Bug'X' - how important is it to keep to those diameters? I'm finding it a challenge to find anything other than pultruded at those diameters. John, the SkyShark P100 has a larger .280" OD. How does this effect weight/performance? I would love to use 1/4" boom for stiffness. I checked out an 1/8 pultruded tube @ the local hobby shop and thought it would be way to bendy/flimsy for fuse use. --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@...> wrote: > > This is my second post and I apologize up front if this has been covered before. I did a quick search that returned nothing specific, just various mentions. > > What kind of CF Tube are you guys building with for wing spars and booms: Wrapped, Pultruded, Uni-Direction, Braided, etc... ? > > And where are you sourcing these types? > > Thanks for any information. I look forward to building the original first, then the new design when the group irons out any wrinkles. > > Max >

A quick search produced Goodwinds and a good price on the P100.  I'd use one for the boom.  1/8" pultruded spars have worked fine for me.  Rick found cf tubes in either Walmarts of  Kmarts that look good.   John ________________________________ From: raincityflyer <lewis08@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:41 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon Booms   Max - I personally stay away from pultuded tubes. I prefer wrapped tubes around 1/4" or 5-6 mm. There are plenty of kite stores online that sell them for $10-12. A Skyshark P100 will just fit in the AG 37 tip rib. Cheers! Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@...> wrote: > > This is my second post and I apologize up front if this has been covered before. I did a quick search that returned nothing specific, just various mentions. > > What kind of CF Tube are you guys building with for wing spars and booms: Wrapped, Pultruded, Uni-Direction, Braided, etc... ? > > And where are you sourcing these types? > > Thanks for any information. I look forward to building the original first, then the new design when the group irons out any wrinkles. > > Max > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Max - I personally stay away from pultuded tubes. I prefer wrapped tubes around 1/4" or 5-6 mm. There are plenty of kite stores online that sell them for $10-12. A Skyshark P100 will just fit in the AG 37 tip rib. Cheers! Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "maxddnj" <maxdd76@...> wrote: > > This is my second post and I apologize up front if this has been covered before. I did a quick search that returned nothing specific, just various mentions. > > What kind of CF Tube are you guys building with for wing spars and booms: Wrapped, Pultruded, Uni-Direction, Braided, etc... ? > > And where are you sourcing these types? > > Thanks for any information. I look forward to building the original first, then the new design when the group irons out any wrinkles. > > Max >

This is my second post and I apologize up front if this has been covered before. I did a quick search that returned nothing specific, just various mentions. What kind of CF Tube are you guys building with for wing spars and booms: Wrapped, Pultruded, Uni-Direction, Braided, etc... ? And where are you sourcing these types? Thanks for any information. I look forward to building the original first, then the new design when the group irons out any wrinkles. Max