From: "John Gospodarek" <John.Gospodarek@...>
Date: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Gyro for discus launching?
Thanks for the input. Im not sure if I will build the cruciform this
time or not. I am working on a 2nd fuse but I have not had mush time.
I have used a 1/8th CF tube for the boom. The V-Tail may work better
than the cruciform on that size of boom. I have the V-Tail already
cut so I may have already have made the choice. Thanks again, and I'm
sure I will try the cruciform sometime.
--- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I thought about mounting the horizontal stabilizer with screws or
> something, but didn't on this one. The vertical stab is slotted to
> mount on the fuse boom closer to the centerline, the horizontal
stab
> is glued to the pylon, and the pylon glued to the boom.
>
> This was my first bug, and I built it with the cruciform tail. I
> haven't tried a v-tail bug. The v-tail might be lighter, but from
> what I've read, the cruciform is better for side arm launching:
less
> stress imposed on the fuse, and straighter launches.
>
> -BC
>
> --- In BugHLG@y..., "John Gospodarek" <John.Gospodarek@i...> wrote:
> > Bob, did you make your tail detachable? I can't tell from the
> > pictures. Do you like the new tail better than the V-tail? Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> > > Hi Colin,
> > >
> > > I wish I could build with composits as you do. Your carbon Bug
is
> > > beautiful.
> > >
> > > The crashes were much easier to repair than I expected. When I
> > left
> > > the field after the Zagi collision, I half expected to build a
new
> > > wing. When I figured out what parts needed to be replaced it
> > wasn't
> > > so bad. It took one evening of cutting (and much pondering)
and
> > one
> > > morning of gluing. I have been very impressed with the
strength
> of
> > > the built-up ribs and the Bug wing.
> > >
> > > I did use your patterns for the tail. Thank you! All that I
> > changed
> > > was to increase the percentage of the movable areas. I don't
know
> > if
> > > I needed to, but I remember reading that deflecting a larger
area
> a
> > > smaller angle results in less drag. I put the horizontal stab
on
> a
> > > pylon so the control horn would be in line with the fuse boom
and
> I
> > > could run the pushrod within the boom. And I mounted the
vertical
> > fin
> > > as close to the centerline of the fuse boom as I could while
> > allowing
> > > room for the pushrods to exit the tube.
> > >
> > > With the cruciform tail it does launch straight with no
presets.
> > When
> > > you get your carbon Bug repaired, I'd suggest you try it
without
> > the
> > > gyro.
> > >
> > > Bob Chiang
> > > Ithaca, NY USA
> > >
> > > --- In BugHLG@y..., "Colin Bosch" <colin.bosch@m...> wrote:
> > > > Bob,
> > > >
> > > > Love your lace wing! Sorry to see your crash photos.
> > > >
> > > > The tail you used looks a lot like my carbon Bug. Did you
use
> > those
> > > > patterns? Did you change anything?
> > > >
> > > > I'm curious about your lauching be straight without a gyro.
Are
> > you
> > > > getting straight launches without any presets?
> > > >
> > > > --Colin--
> > > >
> > > > --- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> > > > > --- In BugHLG@y..., "Dan" <danstrider@a...> wrote:
> > > > > > Everyone,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability
> during
> > > > > > launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are
> > using
> > > > and
> > > > > > their weights.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight
for
> > the
> > > > Bug
> > > > > -
> > > > > > - is launch performace really affected by the gyro?
Might
> it
> > be
> > > > > > possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod
setups
> > are
> > > > > > never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think
that
> a
> > > > gyro
> > > > > > would even matter is this case?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Dan
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Dan,
> > > > >
> > > > > I've never flown with a gyro, so I don't know what they are
> > > capable
> > > > > of. With a cruciform tail, my Lacewing Bug side arm
launches
> > very
> > > > > straight. Sometimes it would go up too steeply, and
sometimes
> > at
> > > > too
> > > > > shallow an angle (due to my launch inconsitencies), but I
> > cannot
> > > > > remember a launch that didn't go straight out. I can't
> comment
> > on
> > > > > launching or flying a v-tail.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I was flying a Little Nipper, I did get launches that
> > tended
> > > > to
> > > > > curve. I used a slight amount of right rudder trim to
launch,
> > > > > corrected with the stick as it slowed down, and then
retrimmed
> > > when
> > > > I
> > > > > had time during the flight.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Bob Chiang
> > > > > Ithaca, NY USA
From: "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@...>
Date: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Gyro for discus launching?
Hi John,
I thought about mounting the horizontal stabilizer with screws or
something, but didn't on this one. The vertical stab is slotted to
mount on the fuse boom closer to the centerline, the horizontal stab
is glued to the pylon, and the pylon glued to the boom.
This was my first bug, and I built it with the cruciform tail. I
haven't tried a v-tail bug. The v-tail might be lighter, but from
what I've read, the cruciform is better for side arm launching: less
stress imposed on the fuse, and straighter launches.
-BC
--- In BugHLG@y..., "John Gospodarek" <John.Gospodarek@i...> wrote:
> Bob, did you make your tail detachable? I can't tell from the
> pictures. Do you like the new tail better than the V-tail? Thanks.
>
>
>
> --- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> > Hi Colin,
> >
> > I wish I could build with composits as you do. Your carbon Bug is
> > beautiful.
> >
> > The crashes were much easier to repair than I expected. When I
> left
> > the field after the Zagi collision, I half expected to build a new
> > wing. When I figured out what parts needed to be replaced it
> wasn't
> > so bad. It took one evening of cutting (and much pondering) and
> one
> > morning of gluing. I have been very impressed with the strength
of
> > the built-up ribs and the Bug wing.
> >
> > I did use your patterns for the tail. Thank you! All that I
> changed
> > was to increase the percentage of the movable areas. I don't know
> if
> > I needed to, but I remember reading that deflecting a larger area
a
> > smaller angle results in less drag. I put the horizontal stab on
a
> > pylon so the control horn would be in line with the fuse boom and
I
> > could run the pushrod within the boom. And I mounted the vertical
> fin
> > as close to the centerline of the fuse boom as I could while
> allowing
> > room for the pushrods to exit the tube.
> >
> > With the cruciform tail it does launch straight with no presets.
> When
> > you get your carbon Bug repaired, I'd suggest you try it without
> the
> > gyro.
> >
> > Bob Chiang
> > Ithaca, NY USA
> >
> > --- In BugHLG@y..., "Colin Bosch" <colin.bosch@m...> wrote:
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > Love your lace wing! Sorry to see your crash photos.
> > >
> > > The tail you used looks a lot like my carbon Bug. Did you use
> those
> > > patterns? Did you change anything?
> > >
> > > I'm curious about your lauching be straight without a gyro. Are
> you
> > > getting straight launches without any presets?
> > >
> > > --Colin--
> > >
> > > --- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> > > > --- In BugHLG@y..., "Dan" <danstrider@a...> wrote:
> > > > > Everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability
during
> > > > > launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are
> using
> > > and
> > > > > their weights.
> > > > >
> > > > > Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight for
> the
> > > Bug
> > > > -
> > > > > - is launch performace really affected by the gyro? Might
it
> be
> > > > > possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod setups
> are
> > > > > never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think that
a
> > > gyro
> > > > > would even matter is this case?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > > Hi Dan,
> > > >
> > > > I've never flown with a gyro, so I don't know what they are
> > capable
> > > > of. With a cruciform tail, my Lacewing Bug side arm launches
> very
> > > > straight. Sometimes it would go up too steeply, and sometimes
> at
> > > too
> > > > shallow an angle (due to my launch inconsitencies), but I
> cannot
> > > > remember a launch that didn't go straight out. I can't
comment
> on
> > > > launching or flying a v-tail.
> > > >
> > > > When I was flying a Little Nipper, I did get launches that
> tended
> > > to
> > > > curve. I used a slight amount of right rudder trim to launch,
> > > > corrected with the stick as it slowed down, and then retrimmed
> > when
> > > I
> > > > had time during the flight.
> > > >
> > > > -Bob Chiang
> > > > Ithaca, NY USA
From: "John Gospodarek" <John.Gospodarek@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Gyro for discus launching?
Bob, did you make your tail detachable? I can't tell from the
pictures. Do you like the new tail better than the V-tail? Thanks.
--- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> Hi Colin,
>
> I wish I could build with composits as you do. Your carbon Bug is
> beautiful.
>
> The crashes were much easier to repair than I expected. When I
left
> the field after the Zagi collision, I half expected to build a new
> wing. When I figured out what parts needed to be replaced it
wasn't
> so bad. It took one evening of cutting (and much pondering) and
one
> morning of gluing. I have been very impressed with the strength of
> the built-up ribs and the Bug wing.
>
> I did use your patterns for the tail. Thank you! All that I
changed
> was to increase the percentage of the movable areas. I don't know
if
> I needed to, but I remember reading that deflecting a larger area a
> smaller angle results in less drag. I put the horizontal stab on a
> pylon so the control horn would be in line with the fuse boom and I
> could run the pushrod within the boom. And I mounted the vertical
fin
> as close to the centerline of the fuse boom as I could while
allowing
> room for the pushrods to exit the tube.
>
> With the cruciform tail it does launch straight with no presets.
When
> you get your carbon Bug repaired, I'd suggest you try it without
the
> gyro.
>
> Bob Chiang
> Ithaca, NY USA
>
> --- In BugHLG@y..., "Colin Bosch" <colin.bosch@m...> wrote:
> > Bob,
> >
> > Love your lace wing! Sorry to see your crash photos.
> >
> > The tail you used looks a lot like my carbon Bug. Did you use
those
> > patterns? Did you change anything?
> >
> > I'm curious about your lauching be straight without a gyro. Are
you
> > getting straight launches without any presets?
> >
> > --Colin--
> >
> > --- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> > > --- In BugHLG@y..., "Dan" <danstrider@a...> wrote:
> > > > Everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability during
> > > > launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are
using
> > and
> > > > their weights.
> > > >
> > > > Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight for
the
> > Bug
> > > -
> > > > - is launch performace really affected by the gyro? Might it
be
> > > > possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod setups
are
> > > > never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think that a
> > gyro
> > > > would even matter is this case?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Dan
> > >
> > > Hi Dan,
> > >
> > > I've never flown with a gyro, so I don't know what they are
> capable
> > > of. With a cruciform tail, my Lacewing Bug side arm launches
very
> > > straight. Sometimes it would go up too steeply, and sometimes
at
> > too
> > > shallow an angle (due to my launch inconsitencies), but I
cannot
> > > remember a launch that didn't go straight out. I can't comment
on
> > > launching or flying a v-tail.
> > >
> > > When I was flying a Little Nipper, I did get launches that
tended
> > to
> > > curve. I used a slight amount of right rudder trim to launch,
> > > corrected with the stick as it slowed down, and then retrimmed
> when
> > I
> > > had time during the flight.
> > >
> > > -Bob Chiang
> > > Ithaca, NY USA
From: "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@...>
Date: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Gyro for discus launching?
Hi Colin,
I wish I could build with composits as you do. Your carbon Bug is
beautiful.
The crashes were much easier to repair than I expected. When I left
the field after the Zagi collision, I half expected to build a new
wing. When I figured out what parts needed to be replaced it wasn't
so bad. It took one evening of cutting (and much pondering) and one
morning of gluing. I have been very impressed with the strength of
the built-up ribs and the Bug wing.
I did use your patterns for the tail. Thank you! All that I changed
was to increase the percentage of the movable areas. I don't know if
I needed to, but I remember reading that deflecting a larger area a
smaller angle results in less drag. I put the horizontal stab on a
pylon so the control horn would be in line with the fuse boom and I
could run the pushrod within the boom. And I mounted the vertical fin
as close to the centerline of the fuse boom as I could while allowing
room for the pushrods to exit the tube.
With the cruciform tail it does launch straight with no presets. When
you get your carbon Bug repaired, I'd suggest you try it without the
gyro.
Bob Chiang
Ithaca, NY USA
--- In BugHLG@y..., "Colin Bosch" <colin.bosch@m...> wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Love your lace wing! Sorry to see your crash photos.
>
> The tail you used looks a lot like my carbon Bug. Did you use those
> patterns? Did you change anything?
>
> I'm curious about your lauching be straight without a gyro. Are you
> getting straight launches without any presets?
>
> --Colin--
>
> --- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> > --- In BugHLG@y..., "Dan" <danstrider@a...> wrote:
> > > Everyone,
> > >
> > > I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability during
> > > launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are using
> and
> > > their weights.
> > >
> > > Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight for the
> Bug
> > -
> > > - is launch performace really affected by the gyro? Might it be
> > > possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod setups are
> > > never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think that a
> gyro
> > > would even matter is this case?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dan
> >
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > I've never flown with a gyro, so I don't know what they are
capable
> > of. With a cruciform tail, my Lacewing Bug side arm launches very
> > straight. Sometimes it would go up too steeply, and sometimes at
> too
> > shallow an angle (due to my launch inconsitencies), but I cannot
> > remember a launch that didn't go straight out. I can't comment on
> > launching or flying a v-tail.
> >
> > When I was flying a Little Nipper, I did get launches that tended
> to
> > curve. I used a slight amount of right rudder trim to launch,
> > corrected with the stick as it slowed down, and then retrimmed
when
> I
> > had time during the flight.
> >
> > -Bob Chiang
> > Ithaca, NY USA
From: "Colin Bosch" <colin.bosch@...>
Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Gyro for discus launching?
Bob,
Love your lace wing! Sorry to see your crash photos.
The tail you used looks a lot like my carbon Bug. Did you use those
patterns? Did you change anything?
I'm curious about your lauching be straight without a gyro. Are you
getting straight launches without any presets?
--Colin--
--- In BugHLG@y..., "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@c...> wrote:
> --- In BugHLG@y..., "Dan" <danstrider@a...> wrote:
> > Everyone,
> >
> > I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability during
> > launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are using
and
> > their weights.
> >
> > Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight for the
Bug
> -
> > - is launch performace really affected by the gyro? Might it be
> > possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod setups are
> > never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think that a
gyro
> > would even matter is this case?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> I've never flown with a gyro, so I don't know what they are capable
> of. With a cruciform tail, my Lacewing Bug side arm launches very
> straight. Sometimes it would go up too steeply, and sometimes at
too
> shallow an angle (due to my launch inconsitencies), but I cannot
> remember a launch that didn't go straight out. I can't comment on
> launching or flying a v-tail.
>
> When I was flying a Little Nipper, I did get launches that tended
to
> curve. I used a slight amount of right rudder trim to launch,
> corrected with the stick as it slowed down, and then retrimmed when
I
> had time during the flight.
>
> -Bob Chiang
> Ithaca, NY USA
From: "Colin Bosch" <colin.bosch@...>
Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Gyro for discus launching?
You certainly do not need a gyro for discus launching the Bug. But
the first time I tryed a gyro, I was hooked! It make the launch so
simple it's wonderful. However, weight is really an issue on a plane
this small. My carbon Bug is broken and I haven't had time to rebuild
it, but when I do, I will remove the gyro and retry launching without
it.
I do not remember if I launched without the gyro in the final tail
configuration. However, all non-gyro launches I've made with the Bug
resulted in the plane immediately rolling left to inverted -
resulting in a crash. Later, I learned about presets and with a
small amount of right rudder, the launch without the gyro goes pretty
well, except that you have to remember to turn ON the preset switch
and then correctly time the point at which the preset switch is
turned off. The gyro just makes it a real no-brainer for launching -
dead straight and all you have to do is nose over at the top.
The first gyro I used was a Century. I don't remember the actual
weights, but I remember that Century being the lightest available.
Now I'm using the GWS gyro which is few grams heavier, but works more
reliably. The Century gyro appears to be temperature sensitive. I'm
in Phoenix, AZ and it's very hot. Many, many times when I took the
Bug out of the car for a quick toss at lunch time, the gyro initiated
in reverse. I've tested this many times and it appears that once the
gyro cools down, it will initialize correctly, but I've spent 15-20
minutes plugging in and unplugging the batteries before the gyro
would respond correctly. Holding the gyro in front of the air
conditioner duct for a couple minutes seems to help. You really do
NOT want to launch with a gyro that is acting in reverse!!! - Very
messy...
Regards,
--Colin--
--- In BugHLG@y..., "Dan" <danstrider@a...> wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability during
> launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are using and
> their weights.
>
> Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight for the
Bug -
> - is launch performace really affected by the gyro? Might it be
> possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod setups are
> never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think that a gyro
> would even matter is this case?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
From: "bob_chiang2" <rhc3@...>
Date: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Gyro for discus launching?
--- In BugHLG@y..., "Dan" <danstrider@a...> wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability during
> launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are using and
> their weights.
>
> Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight for the Bug
-
> - is launch performace really affected by the gyro? Might it be
> possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod setups are
> never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think that a gyro
> would even matter is this case?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
Hi Dan,
I've never flown with a gyro, so I don't know what they are capable
of. With a cruciform tail, my Lacewing Bug side arm launches very
straight. Sometimes it would go up too steeply, and sometimes at too
shallow an angle (due to my launch inconsitencies), but I cannot
remember a launch that didn't go straight out. I can't comment on
launching or flying a v-tail.
When I was flying a Little Nipper, I did get launches that tended to
curve. I used a slight amount of right rudder trim to launch,
corrected with the stick as it slowed down, and then retrimmed when I
had time during the flight.
-Bob Chiang
Ithaca, NY USA
From: "Dan" <danstrider@...>
Date: Monday, September 9, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: Gyro for discus launching?
Everyone,
I know that Colin used a gyro on his Bug for stability during
launch. I was wondering what gyros, if any, you all are using and
their weights.
Colin, I'm curious to see if a gyro is worth the weight for the Bug -
- is launch performace really affected by the gyro? Might it be
possible to manage without the gyro? My control rod setups are
never rigid enough to get rid of slop, so do you think that a gyro
would even matter is this case?
Thanks,
Dan