Bug HLG

Archive of the Yahoo! Groups mailing list for the Bug hand-launch glider 2002-2018

From: "Mark Stephen" <mark.stephen16@...>
Date: Saturday, November 19, 2011 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
John, Rick, I'll set up a few pieces of scrap and do a spring hinge on them later tonight or tomorrow and take pics to post. Would not do much good to take pics of one installed on my Bug as it is very hard to see with my own 1 1/2 eyes let alone get a good digital image of it. To answer your concerns,yes, if you get your spring tension too heavy, it can and will wear on the servo. That is why it served me well to experiment around with different dia. wire and length of the legs to get a good "TLAR" for the servos. I use .009 guitar string for my springs on my Bug and MiMi.You don't want it too weak or it will not be able to push against the airflow,but not so heavy that your servos chatter to try to keep it still. What I did was power up a servo, hook a little piece of wire to the horn and tug on it untill it started to whine. Then I SWAGed at anything that would have less than half that pull on the servo and still have enough push to move in the airflow would be shiny. So, to stretch out this long story a bit more, what I came up with was the "T" bent spring made from .009 music wire, with 1 1/4" leg (vertical part of the T) and arms that looked about right to give good anchorage into the stab and control surface. I've got dozens of hours on my servos in my Bug and not a trouble one (and their the cheap ones) 2 ea, 5g servos powered by a 150ma 1s LiPo. Get around 50 - 60 minutes flying time a charge from those little guys, so not so much battery draw from them. If their not pulling so hard that the servo wants to fight it, then it uses no more power than what it would to hold a push rod, At least that is what I'm thinking. I'll get those pics up soon. Mark --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > I have the same concerns.  The constant pressure is considered a good thing for launching but it does sound like a strain on the servo.  The same problems occur with the pull-pull method.  Mark also mentioned that he had to modify the spring to prevent distortion at the hinge line which is another problem reported with the string/spring method. >   > Mark, > Can you upload some photos of your T spring instilation so we can see the solution you came up with? >   > John  > > > ________________________________ > From: kb11troy <kb10troy@...> > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:22 AM > Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo.. > > > I've wondered about the string/spring method as well. I used the wire with etched tubing because I had it left over from another DLG build. > > The thing that concerns me about the string/spring setup is that the servos will always be fighting against the pull of the spring- probably using more juice from the battery and maybe putting more wear on the servos. Any thoughts on this? > > I'm not putting it down by any means. It's a very popular technique with the competition DLG crowd. > > Rick > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > Mark, > > I was just about to ask if anyone used the string and spring method.  Any chance that you can upload some photos to the groups site? > > I also debated about using a pull-pull setup using Spiderwire (non-stretch fishing line). > >   > > John > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
From: John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...>
Date: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
I have the same concerns.  The constant pressure is considered a good thing for launching but it does sound like a strain on the servo.  The same problems occur with the pull-pull method.  Mark also mentioned that he had to modify the spring to prevent distortion at the hinge line which is another problem reported with the string/spring method.   Mark, Can you upload some photos of your T spring instilation so we can see the solution you came up with?   John  ________________________________ From: kb11troy <kb10troy@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:22 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo.. I've wondered about the string/spring method as well. I used the wire with etched tubing because I had it left over from another DLG build. The thing that concerns me about the string/spring setup is that the servos will always be fighting against the pull of the spring- probably using more juice from the battery and maybe putting more wear on the servos. Any thoughts on this? I'm not putting it down by any means. It's a very popular technique with the competition DLG crowd. Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Mark, > I was just about to ask if anyone used the string and spring method.  Any chance that you can upload some photos to the groups site? > I also debated about using a pull-pull setup using Spiderwire (non-stretch fishing line). >   > John > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: "kb11troy" <kb10troy@...>
Date: Friday, November 18, 2011 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
I've wondered about the string/spring method as well. I used the wire with etched tubing because I had it left over from another DLG build. The thing that concerns me about the string/spring setup is that the servos will always be fighting against the pull of the spring- probably using more juice from the battery and maybe putting more wear on the servos. Any thoughts on this? I'm not putting it down by any means. It's a very popular technique with the competition DLG crowd. Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Mark, > I was just about to ask if anyone used the string and spring method.  Any chance that you can upload some photos to the groups site? > I also debated about using a pull-pull setup using Spiderwire (non-stretch fishing line). >   > John > >
From: "Mark Stephen" <mark.stephen16@...>
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
Let me did around and look through my Bug file and see what I have. What in particular would you like to see? I didn't do anything too fancy. Just a small section of 1mm SS wire as a leader off the servo arm with a V bend for adjustment and the spring is currently a T bend arrangement. I originally had a Z bend spring but the twisting forces from that made the hinge want to delam and was starting to cause warpage. So... I went to the T bend and that solved a lot of troubles. Much nicer setup. Let me know what pics you want to see and I'll get them up, (even if I have to take them new) Heck, can't have too many pics of a Bug can you? --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Mark, > I was just about to ask if anyone used the string and spring method.  Any chance that you can upload some photos to the groups site? > I also debated about using a pull-pull setup using Spiderwire (non-stretch fishing line). >   > John > > > ________________________________ > From: Mark Stephen <mark.stephen16@...> > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:16 AM > Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo.. > > >   > On my Bug, I have used string and spring. The "pull string" is .009 music wire (guitar string). Also use a piece of that same wire for the spring in the hing. Works great, and no mucking about with small bent or broken push rods. > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > Laurie, > > The teflon tubing is the best, but there is a lower cost alternative to the teflon tubing. It's Sullivans Gold-N-Cable #507. The yellow tubing works fine for the .020 to .024 piano wire that I recommended. I don't know if it's available on your side of the planet. These are available in most hobby shops in the US. > > Don't use the braided Sullivan cable that comes with it - very heavy. > > > > John > > > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Laurie- > > > > > > John is right about the thin steel pushrods- they need housings. I used .018 music wire in etched teflon tubing on mine and it works superbly. You can see the details in the photos I posted under "Rick's Bug". The music wire in tubes is a competiiton style DLG technique, but it works great in the Bug too, and is very light but relatively tough. The only place I know of to buy the tubing is Tailboom.com. It's not cheap, but if you buy 20' it'll last you for many, many Bug builds. The music wire can be had by purchasing single unwound guitar or banjo strings of the right diameter at a music store. Anything from .016 through .020 should work fine. > > > > > > By the way John- I didn't start the Bug thread, but I and Mark61(and you of course) have been doing our best to keep it alive. > > > > > > The Bug is a sweet little plane and about as much fun to fly as anything I know of. And getting to do it as a scratchbuild (my first) is a plus! > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Let me correct something in my last post. The very thin steel pushrods need pushrod housings just like carbon rods. > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
From: John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...>
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
Mark, I was just about to ask if anyone used the string and spring method.  Any chance that you can upload some photos to the groups site? I also debated about using a pull-pull setup using Spiderwire (non-stretch fishing line).   John ________________________________ From: Mark Stephen <mark.stephen16@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:16 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..   On my Bug, I have used string and spring. The "pull string" is .009 music wire (guitar string). Also use a piece of that same wire for the spring in the hing. Works great, and no mucking about with small bent or broken push rods. --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Laurie, > The teflon tubing is the best, but there is a lower cost alternative to the teflon tubing. It's Sullivans Gold-N-Cable #507. The yellow tubing works fine for the .020 to .024 piano wire that I recommended. I don't know if it's available on your side of the planet. These are available in most hobby shops in the US. > Don't use the braided Sullivan cable that comes with it - very heavy. > > John > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Laurie- > > > > John is right about the thin steel pushrods- they need housings. I used .018 music wire in etched teflon tubing on mine and it works superbly. You can see the details in the photos I posted under "Rick's Bug". The music wire in tubes is a competiiton style DLG technique, but it works great in the Bug too, and is very light but relatively tough. The only place I know of to buy the tubing is Tailboom.com. It's not cheap, but if you buy 20' it'll last you for many, many Bug builds. The music wire can be had by purchasing single unwound guitar or banjo strings of the right diameter at a music store. Anything from .016 through .020 should work fine. > > > > By the way John- I didn't start the Bug thread, but I and Mark61(and you of course) have been doing our best to keep it alive. > > > > The Bug is a sweet little plane and about as much fun to fly as anything I know of. And getting to do it as a scratchbuild (my first) is a plus! > > > > Rick > > > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > > > Let me correct something in my last post. The very thin steel pushrods need pushrod housings just like carbon rods. > > > > > > John > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: "Mark Stephen" <mark.stephen16@...>
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
On my Bug, I have used string and spring. The "pull string" is .009 music wire (guitar string). Also use a piece of that same wire for the spring in the hing. Works great, and no mucking about with small bent or broken push rods. --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Laurie, > The teflon tubing is the best, but there is a lower cost alternative to the teflon tubing. It's Sullivans Gold-N-Cable #507. The yellow tubing works fine for the .020 to .024 piano wire that I recommended. I don't know if it's available on your side of the planet. These are available in most hobby shops in the US. > Don't use the braided Sullivan cable that comes with it - very heavy. > > John > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Laurie- > > > > John is right about the thin steel pushrods- they need housings. I used .018 music wire in etched teflon tubing on mine and it works superbly. You can see the details in the photos I posted under "Rick's Bug". The music wire in tubes is a competiiton style DLG technique, but it works great in the Bug too, and is very light but relatively tough. The only place I know of to buy the tubing is Tailboom.com. It's not cheap, but if you buy 20' it'll last you for many, many Bug builds. The music wire can be had by purchasing single unwound guitar or banjo strings of the right diameter at a music store. Anything from .016 through .020 should work fine. > > > > By the way John- I didn't start the Bug thread, but I and Mark61(and you of course) have been doing our best to keep it alive. > > > > The Bug is a sweet little plane and about as much fun to fly as anything I know of. And getting to do it as a scratchbuild (my first) is a plus! > > > > Rick > > > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > > > Let me correct something in my last post. The very thin steel pushrods need pushrod housings just like carbon rods. > > > > > > John > > > > > >
From: Stuart Bradley <stuartjaybradley@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
I've bought unetched teflon off ebay for pretty cheap. Nothing will stick to it (of course, we have all seen the saucepan ads!!), but the thought was tiny wrap of masking tape wherever is needs to be supported. Another thought was a thin spiral of masking tape along its length then can run CA along it. I've always used single strand fishing wire trace for thin pushrods. Pretty cheap from tackle shops and available in a range of sizes. Not sure if its cheaper than piano wire for you guys in the US, but it is where I am. Still yet to start my bug, still yet to finish the QF2, yet to start that sloper thats been sitting here for a year now, yet to rebuild that wing, yet to........ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
Laurie, The teflon tubing is the best, but there is a lower cost alternative to the teflon tubing. It's Sullivans Gold-N-Cable #507. The yellow tubing works fine for the .020 to .024 piano wire that I recommended. I don't know if it's available on your side of the planet. These are available in most hobby shops in the US. Don't use the braided Sullivan cable that comes with it - very heavy. John --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Laurie- > > John is right about the thin steel pushrods- they need housings. I used .018 music wire in etched teflon tubing on mine and it works superbly. You can see the details in the photos I posted under "Rick's Bug". The music wire in tubes is a competiiton style DLG technique, but it works great in the Bug too, and is very light but relatively tough. The only place I know of to buy the tubing is Tailboom.com. It's not cheap, but if you buy 20' it'll last you for many, many Bug builds. The music wire can be had by purchasing single unwound guitar or banjo strings of the right diameter at a music store. Anything from .016 through .020 should work fine. > > By the way John- I didn't start the Bug thread, but I and Mark61(and you of course) have been doing our best to keep it alive. > > The Bug is a sweet little plane and about as much fun to fly as anything I know of. And getting to do it as a scratchbuild (my first) is a plus! > > Rick > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > Let me correct something in my last post. The very thin steel pushrods need pushrod housings just like carbon rods. > > > > John > > >
From: "kb11troy" <kb10troy@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
Laurie- John is right about the thin steel pushrods- they need housings. I used .018 music wire in etched teflon tubing on mine and it works superbly. You can see the details in the photos I posted under "Rick's Bug". The music wire in tubes is a competiiton style DLG technique, but it works great in the Bug too, and is very light but relatively tough. The only place I know of to buy the tubing is Tailboom.com. It's not cheap, but if you buy 20' it'll last you for many, many Bug builds. The music wire can be had by purchasing single unwound guitar or banjo strings of the right diameter at a music store. Anything from .016 through .020 should work fine. By the way John- I didn't start the Bug thread, but I and Mark61(and you of course) have been doing our best to keep it alive. The Bug is a sweet little plane and about as much fun to fly as anything I know of. And getting to do it as a scratchbuild (my first) is a plus! Rick --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Let me correct something in my last post. The very thin steel pushrods need pushrod housings just like carbon rods. > > John >
From: "gldrgidr" <gldrgidr@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
Let me correct something in my last post. The very thin steel pushrods need pushrod housings just like carbon rods. John --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > I avoid carbon rods for something like the Bug.  Something this small is more likely to be knocked around by the wind causing hard landings. Carbon rods do break.  If they break in the pushrod housing you wind up with a one way control - the pushrod will push but because of the break it will not pull.  Better to go with thin steel pushrods (.020 to .024 inch) at least until you have enough experience with the Bug to reduce the occurance of mishaps.  The difference in weight is very small even if it doesn't seem as high tech as carbon. >   > Good to see more Bugs are being built.  For a while there, I thought that this group was dead and buried. > Thanks to Rick for starting the "Bringing back the Bug" thread on RCGroups. >   > John > > > ________________________________ > From: Laurie <lwjcarroll@...> > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:53 PM > Subject: [BugHLG] Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo.. > > >   > Hi all, > > I had set this up and it was working very well...also relatively easy to in stall..I used the Dubro heat shrink/L shaped connector wire for the surface horns and the Dubro micro servo part to poke the rod through etc...and screw clamp... > > I had been noticing that the rudder didn't seem to "answer" at times and while doing repairs on the wing from yesterdays crash ( turned d/wind and the wing tip hit ground...shattered two ribs and need recover)...that I found the screw clamp in the servo end fitting had crushed/broken the carbon rod....letting it flex kind of around the fitting when the servo moved...the rod had still held together so always looked ok when I had checked it....once I used the servo testor today I noticed the rod "wrapping" around the fitting so to speak..hope this makes sense... > > Making up a new push rod now and will be much more careful in fitting it in etc to the servo fitting... > > On one flight yesterday ( rather windy) it just "sat there into wind" (about 10-20 feet up) when I gave full rudder...very sluggish to respond....so I hope this saves some one else a major problem... > > Rgds > > Laurie > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
From: John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [BugHLG] Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
I avoid carbon rods for something like the Bug.  Something this small is more likely to be knocked around by the wind causing hard landings.  Carbon rods do break.  If they break in the pushrod housing you wind up with a one way control - the pushrod will push but because of the break it will not pull.  Better to go with thin steel pushrods (.020 to .024 inch)  at least until you have enough experience with the Bug to reduce the occurance of mishaps.  The difference in weight is very small even if it doesn't seem as high tech as carbon.   Good to see more Bugs are being built.  For a while there, I thought that this group was dead and buried. Thanks to Rick for starting the "Bringing back the Bug" thread on RCGroups.   John ________________________________ From: Laurie <lwjcarroll@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:53 PM Subject: [BugHLG] Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..   Hi all, I had set this up and it was working very well...also relatively easy to in stall..I used the Dubro heat shrink/L shaped connector wire for the surface horns and the Dubro micro servo part to poke the rod through etc...and screw clamp... I had been noticing that the rudder didn't seem to "answer" at times and while doing repairs on the wing from yesterdays crash ( turned d/wind and the wing tip hit ground...shattered two ribs and need recover)...that I found the screw clamp in the servo end fitting had crushed/broken the carbon rod....letting it flex kind of around the fitting when the servo moved...the rod had still held together so always looked ok when I had checked it....once I used the servo testor today I noticed the rod "wrapping" around the fitting so to speak..hope this makes sense... Making up a new push rod now and will be much more careful in fitting it in etc to the servo fitting... On one flight yesterday ( rather windy) it just "sat there into wind" (about 10-20 feet up) when I gave full rudder...very sluggish to respond....so I hope this saves some one else a major problem... Rgds Laurie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: "Laurie" <lwjcarroll@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
I have been doing the replacement rod connector and recalled I had originally crushed the rod when trying to cut it...now I am cutting and then sanding the rod to a point and sealing it with CA so I dont have a crushed but of rod in the fitting. I think this will mean the rod is rigid in and out from the Dubro fitting...The Dubro micro fitting worked fine!!...just my error in fitting in the carbon rod....Laurie --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie" <lwjcarroll@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I had set this up and it was working very well...also relatively easy to in stall..I used the Dubro heat shrink/L shaped connector wire for the surface horns and the Dubro micro servo part to poke the rod through etc...and screw clamp... > > I had been noticing that the rudder didn't seem to "answer" at times and while doing repairs on the wing from yesterdays crash ( turned d/wind and the wing tip hit ground...shattered two ribs and need recover)...that I found the screw clamp in the servo end fitting had crushed/broken the carbon rod....letting it flex kind of around the fitting when the servo moved...the rod had still held together so always looked ok when I had checked it....once I used the servo testor today I noticed the rod "wrapping" around the fitting so to speak..hope this makes sense... > > Making up a new push rod now and will be much more careful in fitting it in etc to the servo fitting... > > On one flight yesterday ( rather windy) it just "sat there into wind" (about 10-20 feet up) when I gave full rudder...very sluggish to respond....so I hope this saves some one else a major problem... > > Rgds > > Laurie >
From: "Laurie" <lwjcarroll@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:53 PM
Subject: Carbon rods in Dubro micro "clamp" for the servo..
Hi all, I had set this up and it was working very well...also relatively easy to in stall..I used the Dubro heat shrink/L shaped connector wire for the surface horns and the Dubro micro servo part to poke the rod through etc...and screw clamp... I had been noticing that the rudder didn't seem to "answer" at times and while doing repairs on the wing from yesterdays crash ( turned d/wind and the wing tip hit ground...shattered two ribs and need recover)...that I found the screw clamp in the servo end fitting had crushed/broken the carbon rod....letting it flex kind of around the fitting when the servo moved...the rod had still held together so always looked ok when I had checked it....once I used the servo testor today I noticed the rod "wrapping" around the fitting so to speak..hope this makes sense... Making up a new push rod now and will be much more careful in fitting it in etc to the servo fitting... On one flight yesterday ( rather windy) it just "sat there into wind" (about 10-20 feet up) when I gave full rudder...very sluggish to respond....so I hope this saves some one else a major problem... Rgds Laurie