Bug HLG

John - I'll stick to the plans - mostly... My goals is to make it look fairly "stock", just add the bits that I like here and there. It'll have the fuse as shown, although I'll likely add some contest balsa to the bottom and top and sand it to a rounded, teardrop shape. I'll likely add some 1/64" ply doublers from forward of the front wing mounts to the rear on the inside for strength. A layer of .75 oz glass will be attached with the WBPU that I use to seal and color the airframe. The tail will use Alan's updated profiles with larger control surfaces (without holes) and the full flying rudder will have the same span and shape, it'll just be one piece with the chord narrowed. I've poached a very cool V-mount idea from another builder that I'm keen to modify and try. It'll also likely be removable for transport. I'll try to post some photos this weekend if I can find the time to get started. I prefer to SAL launch due to a bad knee, so I'll skip the peg and fill the wingtip with more contest balsa for a good thumb grip for SAL or Flip launches. I'm pretty sure I'll be making the wing two-piece as well (some Nipper habits die hard...). That'll change the fuse insides a bit as well for the mounting bolts. I'm also using a 1/4" wrapped CF tube for stiffness as I find the 1/8 pultruded piece too whippy for my tastes. That's about it. Nothing major, just some small changes... :o) Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > Thanks Chris. > Cheerleader?  Just don't ask to see my Pom-Poms. > Hopefully I've been a little more than just a cheerleader.  The Drela based rudder was mine and I've been consulting with Alan off-group. >   > For your bug, are you going with a nipper tail and fuselage? >   > John > > > ________________________________ > From: raincityflyer <lewis08@...> > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:06 AM > Subject: [BugHLG] Re: V-Tail Must GO! > > >   > John - Your point is well taken. > > Besides, anyone who wants a v-tail can figure it out by referencing the original plans. > > I personally feel that you're more of a cheerleader than anything else. > > Keep it up! > > Chris in Seattle > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@> wrote: > > > > As owner of this group I would be the one that might be in trouble.    > > I've had some email discussions with Carl Dowdy, the designer of the original Bug, and he approved our efforts as long as this would be a new design, not just a bug look alike with a different name.  I gave the man my assurance that it would be a new design.     > > I've also accepted that the file BugX-V Tail.pdf is a design infringement.  The minimal test is whether this plan can be used to build an exact copy of the original bug.  It can.  I've always felt the file was in a gray area because it had the X tail on it but now I realize that I was just making excuses.     > > It's doubtful that RCM or Carl Dowdy would take legal action but I still think we have an obligation to respect the rights to this design.  I realize that it's a pain to get the plans from RCM and that everyone would like to get the plans for free but we can no longer keep this file as-is on  the group website.     > > I believe that both legally and morally this file must be removed.  I will remove the file BugX-V Tail.pdf  in 48 hours.  If someone would like to remove the v-tail from this plan I would accept that it could be uploaded again.   I know that this is still a gray area solution but at least we have made an effort to respect Carl's design.       > > Recently in a private email I was called a nazi for trying to force my ideas on this group.  I'm doing my best to promote the interest of this group and still respect the original Bug design rights.  This is also why I'm pushing to remove the V-tail from the Lightninbug plans.  As long as the V-tail is on the plans, you can make an argument for the idea that the plan is just a thinly-disguised, stretched version of the Bug and not a new design.   > >   > > John Gallagher > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Squid <littlefr2003@> > > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:59 AM > > Subject: [BugHLG] Questions, Points & Comments > > > > > >   > > Legal issues, we or i am covered. As i work in the creative industry i > > got one of my mates to look over it and we are fine legally. Plus if we > > wernt, i dont really care as it would probably be some one from America > > that would have a problem and secondly its a statistic that Americans > > have no idea where New Zealand is. So i am are safe haha. No.... or not > > much offense to the Americans. > > Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

--- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "raincityflyer" <lewis08@...> wrote: > > Durability is an interesting tradeoff. I once complained to the designer of the Little Nipper/Seeker/Swyft about things being fragile and not surviving my "landings". > > His response has served me well. Everything needs to be strong enough without being too heavy. And besides, eventually you stop crashing. My goal is 100% hand catch and that takes a lot of wear and tear off the airframe. I'll come back early rather than stay our there too long. Less walking that way too! > > FWIW - I've never broken a CF push rod in a crash. I've found that their flexibility has even saved a rudder or two when I've missed a pop-up hand catch and dropped the poor thing on its tail. > > There are lots of options and everyone has their own experience with them. > > Alan - I'll try to make some progress this weekend on the tail group and post some photos for you. > > Chris in Seattle > > > Quite right of course- my experience with it is anecdotal. The DLG guys in another forum I read (RCG Handlaunch)say that carbon push rods are the lightest pushrod alternative, but that they don't survive crashes nearly as well as wire pushrods. I will say this in favor of wire pushrods- they don't require any fancy measures to terminate. Z-bend on the end at the servo and a simple L-bend with a piece of servo wire insulation as a keeper at the control horn end. :) Rick

Thanks Chris. Cheerleader?  Just don't ask to see my Pom-Poms. Hopefully I've been a little more than just a cheerleader.  The Drela based rudder was mine and I've been consulting with Alan off-group.   For your bug, are you going with a nipper tail and fuselage?   John ________________________________ From: raincityflyer <lewis08@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Re: V-Tail Must GO!   John - Your point is well taken. Besides, anyone who wants a v-tail can figure it out by referencing the original plans. I personally feel that you're more of a cheerleader than anything else. Keep it up! Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > As owner of this group I would be the one that might be in trouble.    > I've had some email discussions with Carl Dowdy, the designer of the original Bug, and he approved our efforts as long as this would be a new design, not just a bug look alike with a different name.  I gave the man my assurance that it would be a new design.     > I've also accepted that the file BugX-V Tail.pdf is a design infringement.  The minimal test is whether this plan can be used to build an exact copy of the original bug.  It can.  I've always felt the file was in a gray area because it had the X tail on it but now I realize that I was just making excuses.     > It's doubtful that RCM or Carl Dowdy would take legal action but I still think we have an obligation to respect the rights to this design.  I realize that it's a pain to get the plans from RCM and that everyone would like to get the plans for free but we can no longer keep this file as-is on  the group website.     > I believe that both legally and morally this file must be removed.  I will remove the file BugX-V Tail.pdf  in 48 hours.  If someone would like to remove the v-tail from this plan I would accept that it could be uploaded again.   I know that this is still a gray area solution but at least we have made an effort to respect Carl's design.       > Recently in a private email I was called a nazi for trying to force my ideas on this group.  I'm doing my best to promote the interest of this group and still respect the original Bug design rights.  This is also why I'm pushing to remove the V-tail from the Lightninbug plans.  As long as the V-tail is on the plans, you can make an argument for the idea that the plan is just a thinly-disguised, stretched version of the Bug and not a new design.   >   > John Gallagher > > > ________________________________ > From: Squid <littlefr2003@...> > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:59 AM > Subject: [BugHLG] Questions, Points & Comments > > >   > Legal issues, we or i am covered. As i work in the creative industry i > got one of my mates to look over it and we are fine legally. Plus if we > wernt, i dont really care as it would probably be some one from America > that would have a problem and secondly its a statistic that Americans > have no idea where New Zealand is. So i am are safe haha. No.... or not > much offense to the Americans. > Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good call, John. Your are doing the right thing by seeking and abiding by Carl's opinion. Follow you conscience and do whatever you think is right. JJ

John - Your point is well taken. Besides, anyone who wants a v-tail can figure it out by referencing the original plans. I personally feel that you're more of a cheerleader than anything else. Keep it up! Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, John Gallagher <gldrgidr@...> wrote: > > As owner of this group I would be the one that might be in trouble.    > I've had some email discussions with Carl Dowdy, the designer of the original Bug, and he approved our efforts as long as this would be a new design, not just a bug look alike with a different name.  I gave the man my assurance that it would be a new design.     > I've also accepted that the file BugX-V Tail.pdf is a design infringement.  The minimal test is whether this plan can be used to build an exact copy of the original bug.  It can.  I've always felt the file was in a gray area because it had the X tail on it but now I realize that I was just making excuses.     > It's doubtful that RCM or Carl Dowdy would take legal action but I still think we have an obligation to respect the rights to this design.  I realize that it's a pain to get the plans from RCM and that everyone would like to get the plans for free but we can no longer keep this file as-is on  the group website.     > I believe that both legally and morally this file must be removed.  I will remove the file BugX-V Tail.pdf  in 48 hours.  If someone would like to remove the v-tail from this plan I would accept that it could be uploaded again.   I know that this is still a gray area solution but at least we have made an effort to respect Carl's design.       > Recently in a private email I was called a nazi for trying to force my ideas on this group.  I'm doing my best to promote the interest of this group and still respect the original Bug design rights.  This is also why I'm pushing to remove the V-tail from the Lightninbug plans.  As long as the V-tail is on the plans, you can make an argument for the idea that the plan is just a thinly-disguised, stretched version of the Bug and not a new design.   >   > John Gallagher > > > ________________________________ > From: Squid <littlefr2003@...> > To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:59 AM > Subject: [BugHLG] Questions, Points & Comments > > >   > Legal issues, we or i am covered. As i work in the creative industry i > got one of my mates to look over it and we are fine legally. Plus if we > wernt, i dont really care as it would probably be some one from America > that would have a problem and secondly its a statistic that Americans > have no idea where New Zealand is. So i am are safe haha. No.... or not > much offense to the Americans. > Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Durability is an interesting tradeoff. I once complained to the designer of the Little Nipper/Seeker/Swyft about things being fragile and not surviving my "landings". His response has served me well. Everything needs to be strong enough without being too heavy. And besides, eventually you stop crashing. My goal is 100% hand catch and that takes a lot of wear and tear off the airframe. I'll come back early rather than stay our there too long. Less walking that way too! FWIW - I've never broken a CF push rod in a crash. I've found that their flexibility has even saved a rudder or two when I've missed a pop-up hand catch and dropped the poor thing on its tail. There are lots of options and everyone has their own experience with them. Alan - I'll try to make some progress this weekend on the tail group and post some photos for you. Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "Squid" <littlefr2003@> wrote: > > > > > Rick:Yes i guess you are the authority on the teflon push tubes. Good > > point made .018 music wire will be specced on the next set of plans. > > Plus the note about stretching the tubing. I just nee to get my hands on > > some now to do a rough work out of the length to stretch it by.Including > > this on the plan would be good i think. > > > > Tailboom.com provides extensive instructions in a Word format document which is linked from this page: > > http://www.tailboom.com/teflon.php > > Click on the "Instructions here" link near the top of the page. > > I used the #22 tube stretched 2X to fit 0.018 wire. > > Carbon pushrods are great, but are much less robust than wire in crashes or hard landings. > > Rick >

As owner of this group I would be the one that might be in trouble.    I've had some email discussions with Carl Dowdy, the designer of the original Bug, and he approved our efforts as long as this would be a new design, not just a bug look alike with a different name.  I gave the man my assurance that it would be a new design.     I've also accepted that the file BugX-V Tail.pdf is a design infringement.  The minimal test is whether this plan can be used to build an exact copy of the original bug.  It can.  I've always felt the file was in a gray area because it had the X tail on it but now I realize that I was just making excuses.     It's doubtful that RCM or Carl Dowdy would take legal action but I still think we have an obligation to respect the rights to this design.  I realize that it's a pain to get the plans from RCM and that everyone would like to get the plans for free but we can no longer keep this file as-is on  the group website.     I believe that both legally and morally this file must be removed.  I will remove the file BugX-V Tail.pdf  in 48 hours.  If someone would like to remove the v-tail from this plan I would accept that it could be uploaded again.   I know that this is still a gray area solution but at least we have made an effort to respect Carl's design.       Recently in a private email I was called a nazi for trying to force my ideas on this group.  I'm doing my best to promote the interest of this group and still respect the original Bug design rights.  This is also why I'm pushing to remove the V-tail from the Lightninbug plans.  As long as the V-tail is on the plans, you can make an argument for the idea that the plan is just a thinly-disguised, stretched version of the Bug and not a new design.     John Gallagher ________________________________ From: Squid <littlefr2003@...> To: BugHLG@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:59 AM Subject: [BugHLG] Questions, Points & Comments   Legal issues, we or i am covered. As i work in the creative industry i got one of my mates to look over it and we are fine legally. Plus if we wernt, i dont really care as it would probably be some one from America that would have a problem and secondly its a statistic that Americans have no idea where New Zealand is. So i am are safe haha. No.... or not much offense to the Americans. Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "Squid" <littlefr2003@...> wrote: > > Rick:Yes i guess you are the authority on the teflon push tubes. Good > point made .018 music wire will be specced on the next set of plans. > Plus the note about stretching the tubing. I just nee to get my hands on > some now to do a rough work out of the length to stretch it by.Including > this on the plan would be good i think. > Tailboom.com provides extensive instructions in a Word format document which is linked from this page: http://www.tailboom.com/teflon.php Click on the "Instructions here" link near the top of the page. I used the #22 tube stretched 2X to fit 0.018 wire. Carbon pushrods are great, but are much less robust than wire in crashes or hard landings. Rick

janhein Ramakers: Wonderful that you are going to do a laser cut. Have you done it yet? How did it all go? Did i stuff up anywhere? Keep me updated with this. John Gallagher: I like your point on the weakening holes (lightening holes) in the tail. On the next plan we will leave those as a light dotted stroke and point out they are optional? Legal issues, we or i am covered. As i work in the creative industry i got one of my mates to look over it and we are fine legally. Plus if we wernt, i dont really care as it would probably be some one from America that would have a problem and secondly its a statistic that Americans have no idea where New Zealand is. So i am are safe haha. No.... or not much offense to the Americans. I like what you said earlier. The difference is all in the detail. Can you do a poll on which airfoil will be used to my friend? Thats the one im really keen to see. Laurie: Interesting about the 3 finned V tail. I have never seen this before. Although i think i will stick to the Crucifix. Laurie, im not sure if i like you any more.... the bringer of bad news..... "Flying Models plans catalogue and found this name is already used...a small powered electric R/C....CF857 issue FM 6-91" hahaha. Just joking. Well folks ours looks alot better if i dont say so myself. What should we do here? Chris:Regarding the control horns i have prob done something stupid! Im sure i saw it like that too in either the Gambler or apogee or manta plan???? Not sure.. Ill fix in the next round of plan updates. Thanks for pointing this out. My only excuse is It looks cool? weak excuse i no hahaha. The mods you are going to do interest me so if you make up an image folder and share with us all that would be greatly appreciated!!! Good wood..... well i cannot agree more. I always look odd taking in my gram scales to the balsa section and spending a good few hours testing the weights, cut, grain colours, the stiff test. Only to buy a few sheets! Hahaha i look crazy as i am surrounded by RFT in the hobby shop and even the sales people find it amusing to watch but i manage to build very light models. Some times even better weights than what Dave Robelen would do! If you have any tricks on wood selection let me no.. Forward Swept Wing Looks Cool? Do you want me to do the wing plan for you????? Rick:Yes i guess you are the authority on the teflon push tubes. Good point made .018 music wire will be specced on the next set of plans. Plus the note about stretching the tubing. I just nee to get my hands on some now to do a rough work out of the length to stretch it by.Including this on the plan would be good i think. 99 messages! Well done everyone we seem to be doing better than rc groups with our posting. I like it! Remember every one a picture is worth a thousand words.!! I was thinking of doing a symmetrical airfoil, beefing it up allot and turing out a bug looking sloper! Anyones nickers in a twist yet? hahaha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

janhein Ramakers: Wonderful that you are going to do a laser cut. Have you done it yet? How did it all go? Did i stuff up anywhere? Keep me updated with this. John Gallagher: I like your point on the weakening holes (lightening holes) in the tail. On the next plan we will leave those as a light dotted stroke and point out they are optional? Legal issues, we or i am covered. As i work in the creative industry i got one of my mates to look over it and we are fine legally. Plus if we wernt, i dont really care as it would probably be some one from America that would have a problem and secondly its a statistic that Americans have no idea where New Zealand is. So i am are safe haha. No.... or not much offense to the Americans. I like what you said earlier. The difference is all in the detail. Can you do a poll on which airfoil will be used to my friend? Thats the one im really keen to see. Laurie: Interesting about the 3 finned V tail. I have never seen this before. Although i think i will stick to the Crucifix. Laurie, im not sure if i like you any more.... the bringer of bad news..... "Flying Models plans catalogue and found this name is already used...a small powered electric R/C....CF857 issue FM 6-91" hahaha. Just joking. Well folks ours looks alot better if i dont say so myself. What should we do here? Chris:Regarding the control horns i have prob done something stupid! Im sure i saw it like that too in either the Gambler or apogee or manta plan???? Not sure.. Ill fix in the next round of plan updates. Thanks for pointing this out. My only excuse is It looks cool? weak excuse i no hahaha. The mods you are going to do interest me so if you make up an image folder and share with us all that would be greatly appreciated!!! Good wood..... well i cannot agree more. I always look odd taking in my gram scales to the balsa section and spending a good few hours testing the weights, cut, grain colours, the stiff test. Only to buy a few sheets! Hahaha i look crazy as i am surrounded by RFT in the hobby shop and even the sales people find it amusing to watch but i manage to build very light models. Some times even better weights than what Dave Robelen would do! If you have any tricks on wood selection let me no.. Forward Swept Wing Looks Cool? Do you want me to do the wing plan for you????? Rick:Yes i guess you are the authority on the teflon push tubes. Good point made .018 music wire will be specced on the next set of plans. Plus the note about stretching the tubing. I just nee to get my hands on some now to do a rough work out of the length to stretch it by.Including this on the plan would be good i think. 99 messages! Well done everyone we seem to be doing better than rc groups with our posting. I like it! Remember every one a picture is worth a thousand words.!! I was thinking of doing a symmetrical airfoil, beefing it up allot and turing out a bug looking sloper! Anyones nickers in a twist yet? hahaha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

janhein Ramakers: Wonderful that you are going to do a laser cut. Have you done it yet? How did it all go? Did i stuff up anywhere? Keep me updated with this. John Gallagher: I like your point on the weakening holes (lightening holes) in the tail. On the next plan we will leave those as a light dotted stroke and point out they are optional? Legal issues, we or i am covered. As i work in the creative industry i got one of my mates to look over it and we are fine legally. Plus if we wernt, i dont really care as it would probably be some one from America that would have a problem and secondly its a statistic that Americans have no idea where New Zealand is. So i am are safe haha. No.... or not much offense to the Americans. I like what you said earlier. The difference is all in the detail. Can you do a poll on which airfoil will be used to my friend? Thats the one im really keen to see. Laurie: Interesting about the 3 finned V tail. I have never seen this before. Although i think i will stick to the Crucifix. Laurie, im not sure if i like you any more.... the bringer of bad news..... "Flying Models plans catalogue and found this name is already used...a small powered electric R/C....CF857 issue FM 6-91" hahaha. Just joking. Well folks ours looks alot better if i dont say so myself. What should we do here? Chris:Regarding the control horns i have prob done something stupid! Im sure i saw it like that too in either the Gambler or apogee or manta plan???? Not sure.. Ill fix in the next round of plan updates. Thanks for pointing this out. My only excuse is It looks cool? weak excuse i no hahaha. The mods you are going to do interest me so if you make up an image folder and share with us all that would be greatly appreciated!!! Good wood..... well i cannot agree more. I always look odd taking in my gram scales to the balsa section and spending a good few hours testing the weights, cut, grain colours, the stiff test. Only to buy a few sheets! Hahaha i look crazy as i am surrounded by RFT in the hobby shop and even the sales people find it amusing to watch but i manage to build very light models. Some times even better weights than what Dave Robelen would do! If you have any tricks on wood selection let me no.. Forward Swept Wing Looks Cool? Do you want me to do the wing plan for you????? Rick:Yes i guess you are the authority on the teflon push tubes. Good point made .018 music wire will be specced on the next set of plans. Plus the note about stretching the tubing. I just nee to get my hands on some now to do a rough work out of the length to stretch it by.Including this on the plan would be good i think. 99 messages! Well done everyone we seem to be doing better than rc groups with our posting. I like it! Remember every one a picture is worth a thousand words.!! I was thinking of doing a symmetrical airfoil, beefing it up allot and turing out a bug looking sloper! Anyones nickers in a twist yet? hahaha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will also go another direction here with a .025" cf rod for the full flying elevator and a spring/string for the rudder. Super light. For general use, the etched teflon and SS wire (I use fishing leader - much cheaper) is much preferred over larger rods for the tail surface control. Chris in Seattle --- In BugHLG@yahoogroups.com, "kb11troy" <kb10troy@...> wrote: > > I just looked over the new plan- it's great, and nicely done. > > As far as I know, I'm the only one who has done music wire pushrods in teflon tubing, so I might be an authority :) > > Anyway, I wanted to note that .018 music wire is fine, and .016 would probably work also. As designated in the plan, .025 would work, but be needlessly heavy. > > Music wire of the proper diameter can be found by going to your local guitar store and buying single unwound .018 or .016 guitar strings. Probably a buck or two at most for enough to do a Bug. > > Also, a note on the tubing- if you buy tubing from Tailboom.com, you should realize that it only comes in certain sizes, and you stretch it to reduce it to the size you need. You buy .022 if you expect to use .018 wire, for instance. Stretching is easy, and instructions on how to do it are on the Tailboom website. > > Again, kudos to all who have been involved in the update of the Bug and the redrawing of the plan. It's very cool to see this group coming to life again, and I think this month or last will have seen the most posts in a month in the history of the group. > > Rick >

I just looked over the new plan- it's great, and nicely done. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has done music wire pushrods in teflon tubing, so I might be an authority :) Anyway, I wanted to note that .018 music wire is fine, and .016 would probably work also. As designated in the plan, .025 would work, but be needlessly heavy. Music wire of the proper diameter can be found by going to your local guitar store and buying single unwound .018 or .016 guitar strings. Probably a buck or two at most for enough to do a Bug. Also, a note on the tubing- if you buy tubing from Tailboom.com, you should realize that it only comes in certain sizes, and you stretch it to reduce it to the size you need. You buy .022 if you expect to use .018 wire, for instance. Stretching is easy, and instructions on how to do it are on the Tailboom website. Again, kudos to all who have been involved in the update of the Bug and the redrawing of the plan. It's very cool to see this group coming to life again, and I think this month or last will have seen the most posts in a month in the history of the group. Rick